I posted the following on Twitter the other night, shortly before bed. I didn’t think much of it — I post my thoughts about the pandemic and the response to it all the time. I was about to sign off but I could see the post was blowing up because usually the engagement trickles in, and this was pouring in. So I stayed up to engage in some back and forth.
What interested me most here is the introspection about the root of your anxiety and why you fear a sheeplike compliant populace. No doubt that exists and can be exploited.
However, I live with a sort of mirror image fear: the growing number of people who have entirely lost the concept of participation in public, communal life. These are the folks who mistakenly conflate unfettered self-interest with freedom. People for whom the very concept of public good is some kind of pussy, left-wing fairytale.
Five decades of right-wing drum beat on the evils of big government has eroded the very concept of good government and citizenship and left us with a wide swath of people who really believe that liberty means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want regardless of its impart on others or the society at large.
I own two grocery stores, so my pandemic experience was impacted much more by non-compliant maskers and a constant battle that at times was fueled by politics. I have been verbally abused and physically threatened.
My fear is that it is not compliance that leads to a soviet style think police and a tyranny of the majority and cancel culture. My fear is that civic duty, inclusiveness, collective good, in my mind, the real heart of America, is being replaced by an ideological America that worships self-interest as the highest good.
To me, this is the worm from which a Facist, totalitarian state grows. These people are just waiting for a leader to promise them what they want and there is nothing and nobody they won’t destroy in defense of “the real America.”
That's well articulated. I used to feel that way too, but now I'm seeing the other side, where compliance and conformity -- even in terms of what you're allowed to say -- is enforced by the left. And I don't really consider them the left, more like the neoliberal oligarchy that uses things like language policing and racial division to foment more hatred, so the common people don't band together.
American media gets our dumb asses to fall in line with the Chinese Social Credit System and the government does not even have to get involved. I appreciate your voice.
Well said. I think you addressed a lot here in a very small space. I had some concerns and responded on Twitter and made it known that I will sometimes wear a mask outdoors to show kindness to others, understanding fully the very limited risks outdoors, and not in an attempt to blindly comply with the state. I probably felt that you were really getting at the problem of mask shaming, but you didn't explicitly state that, rather using hyperbole to make start a discussion. I'll post a few more thoughts on here to get your response because you're clearly acting in good faith here and I see some room for disagreement which is much more interesting than agreement, for me.
yeah, I was a bit hyperbolic, but my point was to show people who want to do the right thing -- make people feel comfortable, e.g., that it's making people like me very uncomfortable because it's not based on evidence but other people's fears. And catering to fears is a major tail risk IMO. So if you really just want to do the right thing and don't care either way, I think it's way better to shed the mask where it's not warranted and let people get over the fear of something that we now know isn't dangerous.
That was one of my next questions - do you recommend just not wearing the mask in most cases outside, if at all, in hopes that you help influence others. I'll give you an example I run into weekly. Parents going from the car to our daycare are supposed to wear it. I think it's important to pick your battles. I'd rather just wear the mask during the drop off for now. It's not like I get to explain the non-risks to the other parent, plus they may not understand why I'm not following the daycare's rules, they might just think I think I'm special or better than them. On the other hand, after we've hopefully reached something like herd immunity, I think it's absolutely appropriate for me to change that stance - probably within a few months! But to your larger point, I also think we are in a major epistemological crisis, which is where you and I would probably agree most. When a President and other influential leaders can continually make false claims about voting fraud and millions of people buy that, it's a major problem, for example.
But let's go back to the daycare. I'm not religious. Believing everything happens for a reason (because it's God's plan) seems so counter to reality that I think it can be a harmful belief system. Now, this daycare, it's a former convent and partially run by Catholic nuns. Should I absolutely not send my child there? I think the people who work there are professional and kind and it's a perfectly fine and safe environment for a two year old. I'm not going to change everyone else's opinion, nor do I have to, nor should I try to. So, I find it to be a very big chasm between actively mask shaming and just wearing a mask outdoors or between berating my Christian family members for their beliefs versus choosing to question their beliefs thoughtfully, without shaming them.
So, to come full circle, I find it most helpful to continually talk to others I know about the pandemic. What are actual risks versus what aren't? It leads to discussions about beliefs vs. opinions, misconceptions and why people have them etc....Some of my friends are more risk-averse than others, but some I've pushed a little for being too fearful based on unfounded ideas. So, in the end, I think we want similar things - namely objective thinking, but probably find different forms of poor critical thinking skills to be more or less harmful and to varying levels.
I think the masking up outdoors issue will subside. I actually fear most the lack of mask wearing by people during cold / flu season because it's going to still be taboo to not spread your germs (why I don't know!) and now masks have become so politically charged, it's almost like I can't just wear one for the right reasons either.
I almost never wear a mask outside, but I do wear one per the rules of the school during pickup where it's crowded. As you said, it's not the battle to fight, and you're not going to explain yourself, but like I will change that soon, and others will too. I would absolutely send my kid to that daycare if it's a nice environment. But unlike people who think they are doing good by wearing a mask to cater to irrational fears, I think baseless compliance is dangerous and should be avoided to the greatest extent practicable.
What interested me most here is the introspection about the root of your anxiety and why you fear a sheeplike compliant populace. No doubt that exists and can be exploited.
However, I live with a sort of mirror image fear: the growing number of people who have entirely lost the concept of participation in public, communal life. These are the folks who mistakenly conflate unfettered self-interest with freedom. People for whom the very concept of public good is some kind of pussy, left-wing fairytale.
Five decades of right-wing drum beat on the evils of big government has eroded the very concept of good government and citizenship and left us with a wide swath of people who really believe that liberty means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want regardless of its impart on others or the society at large.
I own two grocery stores, so my pandemic experience was impacted much more by non-compliant maskers and a constant battle that at times was fueled by politics. I have been verbally abused and physically threatened.
My fear is that it is not compliance that leads to a soviet style think police and a tyranny of the majority and cancel culture. My fear is that civic duty, inclusiveness, collective good, in my mind, the real heart of America, is being replaced by an ideological America that worships self-interest as the highest good.
To me, this is the worm from which a Facist, totalitarian state grows. These people are just waiting for a leader to promise them what they want and there is nothing and nobody they won’t destroy in defense of “the real America.”
That's well articulated. I used to feel that way too, but now I'm seeing the other side, where compliance and conformity -- even in terms of what you're allowed to say -- is enforced by the left. And I don't really consider them the left, more like the neoliberal oligarchy that uses things like language policing and racial division to foment more hatred, so the common people don't band together.
American media gets our dumb asses to fall in line with the Chinese Social Credit System and the government does not even have to get involved. I appreciate your voice.
thanks -- it's pretty pathetic how people are enforcing it voluntarily, I agree
Well said. I think you addressed a lot here in a very small space. I had some concerns and responded on Twitter and made it known that I will sometimes wear a mask outdoors to show kindness to others, understanding fully the very limited risks outdoors, and not in an attempt to blindly comply with the state. I probably felt that you were really getting at the problem of mask shaming, but you didn't explicitly state that, rather using hyperbole to make start a discussion. I'll post a few more thoughts on here to get your response because you're clearly acting in good faith here and I see some room for disagreement which is much more interesting than agreement, for me.
yeah, I was a bit hyperbolic, but my point was to show people who want to do the right thing -- make people feel comfortable, e.g., that it's making people like me very uncomfortable because it's not based on evidence but other people's fears. And catering to fears is a major tail risk IMO. So if you really just want to do the right thing and don't care either way, I think it's way better to shed the mask where it's not warranted and let people get over the fear of something that we now know isn't dangerous.
That was one of my next questions - do you recommend just not wearing the mask in most cases outside, if at all, in hopes that you help influence others. I'll give you an example I run into weekly. Parents going from the car to our daycare are supposed to wear it. I think it's important to pick your battles. I'd rather just wear the mask during the drop off for now. It's not like I get to explain the non-risks to the other parent, plus they may not understand why I'm not following the daycare's rules, they might just think I think I'm special or better than them. On the other hand, after we've hopefully reached something like herd immunity, I think it's absolutely appropriate for me to change that stance - probably within a few months! But to your larger point, I also think we are in a major epistemological crisis, which is where you and I would probably agree most. When a President and other influential leaders can continually make false claims about voting fraud and millions of people buy that, it's a major problem, for example.
But let's go back to the daycare. I'm not religious. Believing everything happens for a reason (because it's God's plan) seems so counter to reality that I think it can be a harmful belief system. Now, this daycare, it's a former convent and partially run by Catholic nuns. Should I absolutely not send my child there? I think the people who work there are professional and kind and it's a perfectly fine and safe environment for a two year old. I'm not going to change everyone else's opinion, nor do I have to, nor should I try to. So, I find it to be a very big chasm between actively mask shaming and just wearing a mask outdoors or between berating my Christian family members for their beliefs versus choosing to question their beliefs thoughtfully, without shaming them.
So, to come full circle, I find it most helpful to continually talk to others I know about the pandemic. What are actual risks versus what aren't? It leads to discussions about beliefs vs. opinions, misconceptions and why people have them etc....Some of my friends are more risk-averse than others, but some I've pushed a little for being too fearful based on unfounded ideas. So, in the end, I think we want similar things - namely objective thinking, but probably find different forms of poor critical thinking skills to be more or less harmful and to varying levels.
I think the masking up outdoors issue will subside. I actually fear most the lack of mask wearing by people during cold / flu season because it's going to still be taboo to not spread your germs (why I don't know!) and now masks have become so politically charged, it's almost like I can't just wear one for the right reasons either.
Thoughts?
I almost never wear a mask outside, but I do wear one per the rules of the school during pickup where it's crowded. As you said, it's not the battle to fight, and you're not going to explain yourself, but like I will change that soon, and others will too. I would absolutely send my kid to that daycare if it's a nice environment. But unlike people who think they are doing good by wearing a mask to cater to irrational fears, I think baseless compliance is dangerous and should be avoided to the greatest extent practicable.