I love the guest appearance of Oscar. I enjoyed the discussion regarding gayness, as well. As a Christ-follower and believer in The Bible as God's actual Word, I believe it is clear that attraction to same sex is a result of the fall/original sin. This would be likened to a heterosexual who desires to have sex with another man's wife. We cannot control the desire and being tempted is not a sin. Having the desire is not a sin. The sin is when we act upon it. So, people could consider themselves homosexuals in that they are attracted to same-sex people and not sin. They should be welcomed into the church and be free to use their gifts in the church. These would be considered celibate-by-choice (Matthew 19:11-12). Regarding doing what the books say from your pod, I do get where you are coming from. Christians do not think it is just a book. This is the same for Muslims, Mormons, etc., of course. As you know, I have studied these books and their origins and what they say scientifically, morally, historically, archaeologically, and spiritually (literally asking God for confirmation in my heart and seeing how the words in these books have effected me), and The Bible stands out in a HUGE way. So, for me, a big part of my testimony, after I came into faith that Jesus' blood sacrifice is the only way we can be forgiven, cleansed, and be in relationship with The Father for eternity, was vetting Scripture as being wholly unique among holy books of faith. I do understand that you believe we should all take a subjective look at what is good for us, our families, society, and the world, and make our moral and ethical decisions based on that logic. God does not want us to check our logic at the door of faith, but there are times when our faith is tested and we are called to defer to the one who knows all. Just a few musings on this beautiful Saturday morn in Colorado. I love you, Chris, and pray you have an awesome weekend!
thanks Chip -- that's kind of what I was also saying about gayness -- if you're tempted, you're kind of gay whether you indulge in it or not, and of course it's not your fault that you are tempted, and it not being your fault, it's not a sin. So the people who have the most problem with gays are typically tempted themselves but believe themselves morally superior for having abstained. Which makes them gay.
I am not tempted to be gay, though like every heterosexual man I'm tempted by women other than my wife and do abstain from that and I do think it's a moral choice that some people don't make. But it's more that they bear the ill consequences of that in their lives, rather than it being a sin per se. In fact, I think it's tricky for us humans to pronounce what's a sin and what's not, since that's not up to us, but it's easy for us to understand the predictable consequences of doing things that will destroy our families.
I believe sin is very deceptive and so it is not necessarily easy for us to understand the predictable consequences. I think of my foolishness in drunk driving. If I took time to think about the consequences, genuinely and sincerely, Iike killing a father of four, going to jail, getting raped in jail, having that on my record, etc., I still think I would have done it because I was selfish and wanted to get drunk and not have to go back the next day and get my car or have to deal with my parents who would know I got drunk. I don't think most individuals think of the dramatic consequences of divorce on their children.
I again bring up the Bible as no one could tell anyone what sin would be if it weren't for Scripture or another book that people believed was from God. Who are you to tell me what I am doing is wrong?! It goes to that philosophy of killing 1 for the masses to be saved. You can argue all you want that it is not good to kill the one, but why, really? Who are you to say what is right or wrong? And then, who are you to say what is wrong or right for me, personally, in my unique situations? I spent, as you know, a considerable amount of time studying holy books with one of my purposes being to know which God to genuinely follow. When you bring in a God who is far beyond our intellect, power, capacity to love unconditionally, etc., it is much, much, much easier to obey joyfully when commanded.
Lastly, I do think you have a little gay in you. I saw how you looked at me in Tahoe after having a few shots. It's ok, Chris, your secret is safe with me. So, God tells us to not "coarse joke (Ephesians 5:4)". Is that coarse joking? I am believing no. Happy New Year.
haha, must have had more than a few, in that case, maybe 40 or 50?
It's not good to kill one because everyone is an end in himself, not a means to the greater good. But why then can you kill someone in self-defense? Because his demise was brought about by himself, a situation he created and apparently wanted. How do I know these things? Because they are aesthetically correct to me. if I do something morally wrong, i.e., sin, it's like a musician playing the wrong note. It clashes.
Hah! Yeah, and some other things in your blood, I am sure :0) I'll never forget that look. Piercing. JK of course.
I agree that sin can clash or feel wrong. In fact, God talks about how the unbeliever who does not know the Torah or does not have Holy Spirit in Him has been given the ability to discern right from wrong. The problem is that the heart is wicked and people convince themselves that good is evil and evil is good. This is why it is vital there is capital "T" truth, though of course there are certain things that are still debated regarding what exactly IS capital "T". For example, you mention killing in self-defense. There are those in the Christian faith that would say we should NEVER kill....better to be martryed then to take someone's life....
People do convince themselves all the time. But they do it with the holy books too. There is a capital T truth. Unfortunately, you can't know it the way you know 2 + 2 = 4. You can only be it, manifest it. If one thinks he knows it, one is probably deceived.
And I seriously hope everyone knows you're joking.
Haha! You made me laugh out loud. Yes, everyone, I was joking about Chris' gayness. He only "acted" a little gay after I posted him up hard under the basket....
There are certain 2+2=4 capital "T" truths. Don't steal, murder, commit adultery....I guess I would ask what you mean that you cannot "know it". I agree that though I know Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit, on one level, I do not completely know God and never will, completely, even for all eternity, for that is the essence of the God-head.
I love the guest appearance of Oscar. I enjoyed the discussion regarding gayness, as well. As a Christ-follower and believer in The Bible as God's actual Word, I believe it is clear that attraction to same sex is a result of the fall/original sin. This would be likened to a heterosexual who desires to have sex with another man's wife. We cannot control the desire and being tempted is not a sin. Having the desire is not a sin. The sin is when we act upon it. So, people could consider themselves homosexuals in that they are attracted to same-sex people and not sin. They should be welcomed into the church and be free to use their gifts in the church. These would be considered celibate-by-choice (Matthew 19:11-12). Regarding doing what the books say from your pod, I do get where you are coming from. Christians do not think it is just a book. This is the same for Muslims, Mormons, etc., of course. As you know, I have studied these books and their origins and what they say scientifically, morally, historically, archaeologically, and spiritually (literally asking God for confirmation in my heart and seeing how the words in these books have effected me), and The Bible stands out in a HUGE way. So, for me, a big part of my testimony, after I came into faith that Jesus' blood sacrifice is the only way we can be forgiven, cleansed, and be in relationship with The Father for eternity, was vetting Scripture as being wholly unique among holy books of faith. I do understand that you believe we should all take a subjective look at what is good for us, our families, society, and the world, and make our moral and ethical decisions based on that logic. God does not want us to check our logic at the door of faith, but there are times when our faith is tested and we are called to defer to the one who knows all. Just a few musings on this beautiful Saturday morn in Colorado. I love you, Chris, and pray you have an awesome weekend!
thanks Chip -- that's kind of what I was also saying about gayness -- if you're tempted, you're kind of gay whether you indulge in it or not, and of course it's not your fault that you are tempted, and it not being your fault, it's not a sin. So the people who have the most problem with gays are typically tempted themselves but believe themselves morally superior for having abstained. Which makes them gay.
I am not tempted to be gay, though like every heterosexual man I'm tempted by women other than my wife and do abstain from that and I do think it's a moral choice that some people don't make. But it's more that they bear the ill consequences of that in their lives, rather than it being a sin per se. In fact, I think it's tricky for us humans to pronounce what's a sin and what's not, since that's not up to us, but it's easy for us to understand the predictable consequences of doing things that will destroy our families.
I believe sin is very deceptive and so it is not necessarily easy for us to understand the predictable consequences. I think of my foolishness in drunk driving. If I took time to think about the consequences, genuinely and sincerely, Iike killing a father of four, going to jail, getting raped in jail, having that on my record, etc., I still think I would have done it because I was selfish and wanted to get drunk and not have to go back the next day and get my car or have to deal with my parents who would know I got drunk. I don't think most individuals think of the dramatic consequences of divorce on their children.
I again bring up the Bible as no one could tell anyone what sin would be if it weren't for Scripture or another book that people believed was from God. Who are you to tell me what I am doing is wrong?! It goes to that philosophy of killing 1 for the masses to be saved. You can argue all you want that it is not good to kill the one, but why, really? Who are you to say what is right or wrong? And then, who are you to say what is wrong or right for me, personally, in my unique situations? I spent, as you know, a considerable amount of time studying holy books with one of my purposes being to know which God to genuinely follow. When you bring in a God who is far beyond our intellect, power, capacity to love unconditionally, etc., it is much, much, much easier to obey joyfully when commanded.
Lastly, I do think you have a little gay in you. I saw how you looked at me in Tahoe after having a few shots. It's ok, Chris, your secret is safe with me. So, God tells us to not "coarse joke (Ephesians 5:4)". Is that coarse joking? I am believing no. Happy New Year.
haha, must have had more than a few, in that case, maybe 40 or 50?
It's not good to kill one because everyone is an end in himself, not a means to the greater good. But why then can you kill someone in self-defense? Because his demise was brought about by himself, a situation he created and apparently wanted. How do I know these things? Because they are aesthetically correct to me. if I do something morally wrong, i.e., sin, it's like a musician playing the wrong note. It clashes.
Hah! Yeah, and some other things in your blood, I am sure :0) I'll never forget that look. Piercing. JK of course.
I agree that sin can clash or feel wrong. In fact, God talks about how the unbeliever who does not know the Torah or does not have Holy Spirit in Him has been given the ability to discern right from wrong. The problem is that the heart is wicked and people convince themselves that good is evil and evil is good. This is why it is vital there is capital "T" truth, though of course there are certain things that are still debated regarding what exactly IS capital "T". For example, you mention killing in self-defense. There are those in the Christian faith that would say we should NEVER kill....better to be martryed then to take someone's life....
People do convince themselves all the time. But they do it with the holy books too. There is a capital T truth. Unfortunately, you can't know it the way you know 2 + 2 = 4. You can only be it, manifest it. If one thinks he knows it, one is probably deceived.
And I seriously hope everyone knows you're joking.
Haha! You made me laugh out loud. Yes, everyone, I was joking about Chris' gayness. He only "acted" a little gay after I posted him up hard under the basket....
There are certain 2+2=4 capital "T" truths. Don't steal, murder, commit adultery....I guess I would ask what you mean that you cannot "know it". I agree that though I know Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit, on one level, I do not completely know God and never will, completely, even for all eternity, for that is the essence of the God-head.
Great cast ser
thanks!